It's fairly common knowledge that I've never been a fan of custom stage skills. To that end, I' like to begin a discussion on removing/fixing their effects.
My thoughts on the matter: custom stages tend to work like one of two things: either an unavoidable status damage/reduction, effecting the opponent in a way that he/she is highly unlikely to have a way around, or a powered-up buff skill with effects that are generally considered powerful even for a devoted normal skill. Often both. To make matters worse, they tend to effect the opponent in a negative way and effect the user in a positive way. The original intent of panels was a set of unique effects that a strategy could be made around that has set perimeters that a Navi must be able to use. The only true counter to someone with custom panels now is if you use them yourself, as panel locks and other similar effects tend to run rampant.
As Colin (Phen) was kind enough to point out in the c-box earlier, custom panels have become the new hacking skill, ad we did away with those long ago and with good reason.
My solution: Remove custom panels entirely. If you want panels, use what exists. We don't let members make new programs, why should we allow something with such a broad effect be in the hands of one side of a battle? To this end, I would also advocate expanding the current panel set to make for more options to make strategies for.
That said, I AM biased here, but not so biased that I won't listen to reason. Also note that I'm not stating that I intend to make changes on my own. The entire reason for this board is to get opinions and see just how everyone views issues at hand. To that end, I look forward to seeing what everyone interested in the subject has to say.
As might have already been clear, I'm pretty on board with this. I would like to think im less baised as well, since I have used stages to some degree and don't hate them so much. However they're becoming a problem just as Hacking skills did, and while they're not incredibly common (not every navi has them) they're common enough for us to notice this trend. For those supporting the idea to disallow Custom stage skills by navis and instead have increased selection from stage chips, feel free to make suggestions as to stages you might like to see in Chip form.
I too think they should be nuked. For reasons provided (you guys are so much more eloquent than I)
I might chip in though, that even though it might be unfair to everyone else, maybe anyone who uses a custom stage get a voucher for a stage chip? I know they'll be remaking their skills anyway, but since they do contribute to a good deal of their strategy, just cutting it entirely would kindof be a tough blow to reconcile. Just a thought.
I have to agree that Custom Stages have gotten out of hand, but I don't think we should nix them entirely. I've actually been thinking of a fix for these for a little while now, but before I explain what those proposals are, I just need to iterate few things about the rules for Custom Stages:
- Custom Stages cannot affect "Opponent" or "Self" by name, per say; they can affect "Aqua Element Navis" or "Non-Aqua Element Navis", or can affect Navis of a certain Type or Karma, but they can't be things like "Opponent gets nerfed, I get buffed". It's supposed to have been that way for a while, although a few things may have slipped through the cracks. Basically: Stages MUST have global effects, but they're allowed to have 'Exceptions' which (obviously) work in the User's favor.
- Custom Stages cannot be: Locked, Extended, or Co-exist with other stages; shortly after the first sighting of Tox's "Anacrusis" Titan, I believe the last portion of this rule was put into effect. I remember it specifically affecting Warrior, and then I believe the other two rules were enforced by other approvers at other dates, but I could be wrong. Regardless, that's the way I've been approving them lately and would continue to do so. Again: some may have slipped through the cracks.
- Custom Stages cannot inflict Status Damages directly; but they can function like Ice Stage in that they add Status Damages to Attacks, or they can mimic the effects of a Status Damage instead of actually inflicting it. But again, it would affect all units on the field ((allied or enemy)) except for those qualifying as 'exceptions'.
- There exists no effect such as 'Bypasses Stage Immunity'; and if there ever did, it simply wouldn't affect Custom Stages.
Now, the issue with Custom Stages is that, after their tailored to "Buff Me; Hinder Enemies" or what have you, there's only one method for the enemy to evade it, and that's via Panel Immunity. The solutions I've come up with (but haven't necessarily committed to) are as follows:
- A - - Provide an Alternate Method of Evasion -- It can't be too easy, but it can't be too hard. I was initially planning to leave it up to the player/approver/case on what this alternate method would be (IE: "Enemies can ignore these effects for 1 Turn if they sacrifice 1 Attack Slot that turn"), but having a set in stone method might not be a bad idea. Think of it this way: Panels weren't necessarily unavoidable in the game; you just had to side step to a different panel and you could avoid it altogether. But this was still a burden because sometimes you needed to be on that specific panel to avoid an incoming attack or to set up for one of your own attacks. Panel Skills on MMM could easily be refocused to reflect that aspect of the BN Panels.
- B - - Provide a Method for the Enemy to Prematurely End Custom Stages -- This is a "Warrior Idea" in its purest form; crazy and creative. Just a concept, really, but imagine this: - Custom Stages are given a set HP (Let's pretend it's 200 HP, for the sake of example) - Custom Stages are given a "Start Up Time" (So rather than taking effect immediately, you wait a turn) - When their HP is dropped to 0 (even if it's during the Start Up Time), they are removed and the panels become Broken instead. And obviously, none of this applies to Panel Chips. I thought this was a neat idea, but added a bit more complexity than necessary for now, so I expected it to get denied. I also think I've presented it before, but honestly I can't recall for sure.
Crazy concepts aside, I understand the current issue with Custom Panels, but if at all possible would like them to stick around because they add such a neat twist to the ordinary. I prefer to fix before we nix.
Last Edit: Oct 15, 2014 16:48:15 GMT -8 by Deleted
Understandable, but one issue that I can see is balance. In my personal review of ways to fix the nature of custom stages, it seems like it's all or nothing. That is to say that most fixes either are like throwing a glass of water on a bonfire, or throwing a glass of water on a match. Either it's not enough and may as well not be done at all, or it's too much and makes them useless. In all fairness, this seems to go for normal stages as well, but to a lesser degree due to the fact that they're static effects that one can plan for.
Point in case: I make a Navi with a heavy avoidance strategy. I'd better have a plan for sand panels, otherwise someone might just Rikaru me to death. By that same token, metal panels don't pose a massive strategic threat directly, so I don't really need a plan for them. Yes, someone may have a strategy using metal panels that might mess me up badly, but that's like saying someone had an offense skill that messed you up; it's something that you CAN plan for to some degree, because it will generally effect existing and common systems in some way. Custom panels are a cheap (in terms of expense, not fairness) way to get some kind of freaky custom effect on the field that you're able to plan for, but your opponent generally isn't unless they reverse-engineer it.
Custom panels also seem to force an "all or nothing" strategy to some degree. Either you're thoroughly prepared for them (normally by having panel effects yourself), or the opponent instantly has a massive edge over one aspect of the battle that most Navis aren't prepared to deal with. And if you ARE prepared to deal with custom panels in a manner that doesn't involve panel control (example being Float Shoes), then you have quite a bit of resource wrapped up in a strategy that the opponent very well might not have. It's like LV7 anti-hack cards all over again.
With that tangent over, the TL:DR version of the above is this: how do we make ways to deal with panels without making them an absolutely required part of a Navi or making them omnipotent/impotent?
this might be needless complications to solve the issue and end up creating a bigger problem, but what if every character gets an automatic "Stage Skill" (not counting against total skill count)
where it is capable of one of two things:
-Allows user to make a custom stage with slightly less power than they're capable of now (1x use per battle MAX, cannot be enhanced)
-Allows user to negate effects of a custom stage (1x use per battle MAX, cannot be enhanced)
I realize it'd be more to the users benefit to just make their own custom stage instead of opt for the negation, as their own custom stage would overwrite the previous, but yeah, this was just a thought
I still feel like It would be easier to regulate power of stages if we were to nix the stage skill entirely and create more available stage chips. Using the same guidelines for some of these new stage chips that they AREN'T elemental specific like our other stages are. Custom stages add a level of global power to a navi's kit that I don't really like, and if we restrict them too much we have the issue that it isn't going to be worth making them in most situations. Additionally, I think it adds more diversity in navi creation if we have additional "set in stone" options like stages for people to play with than just letting them build something perfect for them. Interesting things come out of people building around aspects that they can't change but know are very powerful.
This obviously also allows the stages we do make as new chips to be stronger as compared to a stage skill which could end up being rather weak by nature of us not wanting them to get too out of hand again.
The point of this post is likely: People can make what they want if they have all the tools available to them, but people will find interesting ways to do what they want if they're limited in some of those tools. Increased Diversity is good, and having EVERYTHING be super free-form isn't always good.
Warrior: Heyo. She sure is, more than ever I might add. I'mm'a hit you up on discord in a bit to discuss some things, just giving you a heads up ahead of time when you get the random friend request for that lol
Dec 1, 2019 17:54:41 GMT -8