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Post by Zeta on Oct 4, 2018 17:16:10 GMT -8
Vanguard
Skills:
[ All Three Avoids ]: B-Tier Scale. It's a reasonable variation on the base B-Tier effect of the skill, stronger on certain scenarios but weaker in another.
[ Tactical Acumen || Targeting Reticle ]: Both of these are a full synchro skill. You cannot have more than one skill of its type in the same kit.
Attacks:
[ Reticle ]: State that it lasts up to 2 Turns and applies to navis with three or more unique avoid types (Triune excluded as well.) Once ended, a navi cannot be Reticle for 2 turns.
[ Vernier Assault || Scattershot ]: 70%
[ Artillery Strike ]: "Allies hit add 50% of this attack's Final Damage to two attacks of choice," I'm considering this as another variation of the 'Power Up' for allies only. Also, another charge to affect two attacks.
[ Collective Arsenal ]: State thatcChip selected is expended upon use on the attack.
[ Afterglow ]: Keep in mind that this effect cannot be applied onto attacks with S-Tier effects.
° Looks like you're missing two total attacks
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Post by Zeta on Oct 4, 2018 20:38:10 GMT -8
° Vanguard's Approved. But certain sets are tentatively approved and would be monitored in case it gets way out of hand.
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Post by Warrior on Dec 30, 2018 0:41:05 GMT -8
{ Centurion ::(+)::
} HP ConversionUnder "Modifiers", it shows that you're sacrificing 250 HP for the Damage Conversion. The math is correct nonetheless (-500), but just reflect that part for continuity's sake.The CenturionNo Skill Merging for Active Skills for the sake of powering up (other cases is okay in the realm of Custom Skills that do many multiple things). Merging for Passives is still fine (IE: Centurion's Spear) since it just saves space and nothing else. When Actives are merged, it causes "+# Skill Uses" to gain efficiency on those skills which is too manipulative in my opinion.
In the case of this skill: It's still basically fine as is with -1 Base Use (to pay for the extra HP Scaling. The loss of the ability to attack in exchange for the ability to Intercept seems fine, and ofcourse this augmentation alone makes it S-Tier since otherwise it'd be a cheaper way to make a better Object Skill). Regretably this puts the skill at 0 Uses, but the other skill could of course just be a standard "+1 Use to 1 Skill" Support Skill or something, or a passive that gives any of Centurion's Clones +100 * V Max HP or the like.Offensive Navi EquipmentSeems pretty solid. Soft guidelines for what are now being dubbed "Union Abilities" are in the works, and basically works as follows:
Full Union = The Host takes full control of both Navis (think: Aeron and Unity) Partial Union = Both Navis act independently, but "share" something (think: Centurion here, or Warrior's Guardian Oath)
Full Union: - If the host dies, the symbiote dies as well - Usually transfers 3 trait, more or less determined by approver's discretion
Partial Union: - Either Navi can die and the other remains independent / unaffected - Usually only 1 trait is shared, more or less determined by approver's discretion
Any Union: - Needs either an "entry" condition or a "knock out" condition - Any Navi may only be influenced by 1 Union Ability period (giving or receiving)
All told, Centurion's is a Partial Union with some extra caveats, giving it more wiggle room. He meets the requirement of having an entry condition and also "gives" abilities rather than "sharing" them (IE: only one entity benefits from the effects, not both of them). Added to the fact that he stills has a "knock out" condition (even if a bit lenient) as well as self-inflicted drawbacks, it quite fair the it gives more than one effect to its host. The only thing I'm really gonna nudge at is some wording choices:
- Centurion begins the battle Unbonded. -- By sacrificing a full turn of combat, Centurion binds himself to another allied unit. Centurion is the weapon and the allied unit is his Wielder. --- Bonded Centurion can still be targetted separately for attacks, but his wielder can always intercept for him, or force Centurion to intercept for them; this can occur even against attacks that cannot be intercepted, but not against attacks that specify him and his wielder as separate targets. --- Centurion's wielder gains Base Damage equal to Centurion's, as well any attack slots that Centurion passes up during a turn. --- Centurion cannot perform C-Range Attacks on his own, and only possesses 1 C-Range Attack per B-Tier progression. These attacks are granted to his wielder upon binding, and can be used as normal. He can charge them during his turn, and they are released during his wielder's, if they so choose. --- Attacks used in this way consume an Attack Slot from both his wielder and Centurion in order to be used. --- Any of his personal Attack used by his wielder gains any benefits that Centurion would add to attacks, such as his Sonic effect. --- Centurion's Attacks follow the Auto-Attack Formula when used by himself. ---- When Berzerked, Blinded, Burned, Bubbled or Frozen, Centurion is forcefully Unbound from his wielder. His wielder can prevent this by willingly taking on the status effect, as well, piercing all immunity.
* A "Full Turn of Combat" implies that his Defensive Actions and Supportive Actions are null/void as well (so basically you just eat everything and don't Regen or anything while also not attacking). Making this just "a full offensive phase" is more indicative of (what I think) the intention is. Additionally, the flavor text is nice but can go in the description -- if the function of the effects needed more help describing the intent then it'd be fine, but I think this skill's function expresses itself pretty well on its own (so good job on that).
* List Format would probably work better an be more concise for the effects. Less words is always better as long as clarity remains.
* The starting 100 Base Damage that all Navis have should be taken out of the damage inheritance, I feel. Giving "+# Damage to All Attacks" on its own is pretty wonky honestly, but I think this trims just enough to be mostly fine at least
* By necessity, Centurion's turn should always precede the Wielder's. This won't interfere with interception and such, you'll just need to coordinate out-of-battle with other players if he binds to them (more clarity on Turn Order and rulings surrounding that coming soonTM)
* For Attack Inheritance, only "Regular Attacks" was specified (so no Hyper Attack, so Emulations/Chips, or anything beyond the stuff in your "Combat Information" Tab pretty much)
* For the Charge Sharing, just be sure your ally knows that if you charge something in a turn, they still have to wait until their next turn to use it (they can't use it in their post immediately following yours, basically). This doesn't have to be written in the skill though.
* Rather than costing an Attack Slot from both Centurion and his Wielder, simply "manually charging" the C-Attack in question gets a similar result with less words and a little more restraint. Centurion's Auto Charges are still useful for his own S-Attacks while bonded.
* Centurion just dealing 50% Damage is simpler wording for the "functions as Auto Attack" tidbit and also doesn't even remotely raise the question of how it interacts with Anti Damage SP (answer: it doesn't). This reduction only applies to his "own Attacks", so Chips, Emulations, and Attacks inherited by allies aren't penalized.
* Any particular reason for the selection of Status Effects in the Knock Out condition? If not, it'd be simpler to just say "Any Non-Custom, non-Hidden, Named Status Effect"
All told, this is how I would reword it below (Single-Dashes are used to define the core mechanics, Double-Dashes indicate the Wielder's inherited effects, Triple-Dashes indicate the Drawbacks) :
- Centurion begins the battle Unbonded - By sacrificing a full offensive phase, Centurion binds himself to an ally - Centurion's turn will always precede his Wielder's -- While Bound: -- Centurion and his Wielder may still be targetted individually and may still intercept for each other as normal but disregard "Cannot be Intercepted" when doing so -- Wielder's Attacks gain damage equal to (Centurion's Base Damage - 100) -- Wielder gains +1 Attack Slot for every "Pass" Centurion made that turn -- Wielder gains access to Centurion's C-Range Regular Attacks -- Centurion may manually charge his C-Attacks for his wielder -- Centurion may imbue benefits onto his C-Attacks for his wielder --- Centurion cannot use his own C-Range Regular Attacks --- Centurion may only possess 1 C-Range Attack as per B-Tier Progression --- Centurion deals 50% Damage with his own Attacks --- Centurion is forcefully Unbound if inflicted with any Non-Custom, Non-Hidden, Named Status Effect. His wielder can prevent this by willingly taking the status effect as well (Pierces All Immunity) --- Centurion and Wielder cannot interact with other Union Abilities while BondedCenturion's SpearAgain, Skill Merging is fine in this case since it just saves space. This can affect "Any Attack" if you'd prefer that. If you want to keep it as "1 Charged Attack" instead, then you could add that the attack becomes Aimed as well (otherwise: Unaimed).Electrical ChargePower Ups are going to always be "Next Attack". For his Wielder, it could be their "First Attack" instead (if this was the last attack of that turn).Emergency ChannelWill eventually need to fall in line with the "Attack Skill" Guidelines we talked about on Discord, but as those aren't in effect yet these won't be judged by those rules yet (after all, those are still tentative). For now, this will at least need a 1 Turn Charge and will also share the Use Cap with the referenced Skill (4 Combined Uses per Battle Max).Two Pronged AssaultDoes "by himself" mean "only when Unbound"? Either or is fine in my opinion, but be reminded that the Wielder does not inherit this attack since it is a non-Regular Attack.
{ Armiger ::(+)::
} Defensive Navi EquipmentMostly the same minor tweaks here as Centurion. Couple extra questions:
* Damage Mitigation is a tad more precise wording than Damage Reduction, even if it is a little anal, so we're gonna go with that terminology
* Any particular reason "Cuts Darksoul" gets through and "Cuts Undershirt" doesn't? In my opinion, just being exposed to "Ignores Armor" is fine either way really.
* By necessity of the third effect ("damage that gets through to the wielder"), Armiger's turn would need to come after his Wielder.
* Is the wielder supposed to inherit S-Range Attacks instead of C-Range Attacks? (Assumed so in the revision below, correct me otherwise though)
* For the Ally inheriting Dark Soul... that's going to be a no-go this time lol. Especially since this one has slightly fewer drawbacks than Centurion's equivalent (doesn't deal 50% Damage with his own attacks)
* For the last effect, is "Current Health" determined before or after the union?
Going with just my assumptions, here's the revision below. Correct me where necessary:
- Armiger begins the battle Unbonded - By sacrificing a full offensive phase, Armiger binds himself to an ally - Armiger's turn will always proceed his Wielder's -- While Bound: -- Armiger cannot be targetted separately from his Wielder except by "Ignores Armor" Attacks -- Armiger and Wielder inherit each other's Damage Mitigation effects -- When Binding, Armiger's Version-Based HP Bonuses are converted to Armor at a 10:1 Ratio and his other HP Bonuses are converted at a 20:1 Ratio (Max HP is adjusted; Current HP remains unaffected) --- Armiger cannot use his own S-Range Regular Attacks --- Armiger may only possess 1 S-Range Attack as per B-Tier Progression --- Armiger cannot bind with an ally if he is below 1000 Current HP --- Armiger and Wielder cannot interact with other Union Abilities while BondedBrandishSelf-Targetting is no-go at the moment (from what I was told: only enabled by a Status, while targetting allies is only enabled by a Skill). I plan to make more guidelines surrounding that at some point once I get a little more information on the motives behind that rule.Flash FreezeSame thing as Centurion's Emergency ChannelProgram SlotsI believe only 2 are in use? It's listed that 3 are.
{ Siega ::(+)::
} Data ConstructPretty neat. Probably mention that "Max HP Reductions do not affect Current HP"Data DrainSo this is per "Percent of Current Max HP Sacrificed (from Base Max HP)"? Or is it "Percent of Current Missing HP (from Current Max HP)"? Either way, "10% Life Steal per 20% Missing (to a Max of 40% at 20%)" is probably fine. I would just called it "restores" HP rather than "regens" HP fora bit more clarity. Also, change the wording to damage inflicted (IE: The actual HP Damage that each target sustains) and add that the "Missing HP is calculated as each attack lands" if it is based on "Current Missing vs Current Max" instead of "Current Max vs Base Max"RepairDoes it turn off just this skills regeneration for the extra effect or all of Siega's regeneration? (Answer: probably "All" for now, but on the watch list for buffs if need be. So specify "all regen" here.)Data Field" All Entities " will probably be better wording (self-included is implied so you can remove that parenthetical). Goes on CD after delay period.Data Corrosion " with each successful attack " The current wording implies multi-hit moves jack it up a bunch, so this is just for clarity and to function as intended.Conviction Blade 45% of Sacrifice HP (90% of Base Damage converted) The act of converting in Augmented Damage itself does not cost 10% of Base
{ K-358 ::(+)::
} All Special Property AugmentsAcross the board: Only affects Non-Hidden/Non-Type Special Properties This rule was made very distinctly clear to me recentlySpecial PropertiesShow the CDR Augments to these in the Modifications spoiler so it's a little easier to track. Temporal Flux should innately by at 0 CD from Temporal Lv5 since it starts at 4 CD Base for some reasonAvoidancesChange the "Uses per Opponent" to "[Avoid] One Attack per Opponent" Again: "freely activate a Non-Hidden/Non-Type Special Property" for these. If the Natural Avoidance is chosen, it can apply to each opponent as well (but the avoidance type still has to be uniform)Time MongerDefinitely not allowed for "Hidden" or "Type", MAYBE allowed for "Non-Hidden". Specify A-Tier Passive Progression.Intensified AuraObligatory "Non-Hidden/Non-Type"EnduranceObligatory "Does not stack""After" AttacksFor Combos: +10% Total Damage at best (trading 10% of Base for 10% of Current makes it benefit slightly more with augments for a rather light condition: copying and pasting in the correct sequence). Also B-Tier (1 CD). Other combo-variants could be more lenient, like changing an Aimer or something (something that's just flexibility rather than actual power). Another Combo Variant is "Can only be used after [Attack]" as a "Requirement" to have +10% Base Damage Calculation since it's a "Drawback" (even if it is a stretch of one)Personal Wave"successfully fired" can just be shortened to "fired" or "used" since it isn't really possible to "unsuccessfully" fire anything. Also 5 Required Charge for this (3 for the hits, 1 for each Augmented Damage Amp) Also "per hit" is extraneous since Multi-Hits already divide the damage per hit and since percentile amplification would also do that naturallyCooldown Reduction on AttacksI'm not seeing where the Cooldown Reduction for your "Steal" Attacks is coming from. Regardless, "Special Property / Nat Avoid CDR" is A-Tier and would require charge (the next step up: "One free use of (...)" would be S-Tier with Charge, or "S+" Tier).Entropic BurstIf the last effect is referring to Damage Mitigating effects on the enemy, it needs to be changed to only apply to Armor (and would be "S+" Tier: 1 Use and 1 Charge) If the last effect is referring to your own Damage Reduction (IE: Temporal Special Properties), that's not allowed at all since I don't condone other people's poor decisions surrounding the likes of Xion.RewindSame thing as Centurion's Emergency Channel
{ Hollow ::(+)::
} TerraformThis is neat. Should only be able to change the Element of the Panels though, not the effects (element-based effects change to match the new panel element). Also should only be able to do this during the Supportive Phase, not during any phase. Panel Chips (IE: Volcano) take into consideration the base stage regardless of its current element.Studied Expertise0 Minimum CD is fineVoid SphereNext 2 AttacksDraining VoidSpecial Property CDR is A-Tier, so 1 Required ChargeDarkness HoleFine for now, but the tentative Attack Imbue Guidelines will change this if/when they get put into effect (I say this for myself to later read in the future, not for you)Empty CannonNot fully understanding the second effect. So if you sarifice 3 Attacks, you channel it for 3 turns... and can use it once per turn during the channel? Also the last effect says "5 Turn Channel = 3 Turn CD"? Or is that supposed to be "5 Turn CD"? Is it supposed to work like B-Tier Attack Effect Scaling? I just need more clarity over all on this one to be able to go further.VirusesHe references summoning them in his skills, so I assume these are still under construction? Or stored in another thread?Gaia Okay so explain to me exactly what you mean with Hollow's Terraforming skill Josh Usually gets justified by "back in my day we had to wait over a year from some approvals", and that's totally true but still doesn't justify anything more than like a week imo, especially with how clear cut things mostly are now Gaia I'm like 99% certain that Scepter is supposed to be a more advanced version of Sapphire star for its drawbacks In that Scepter applies +1 Skill Use to a skill of choice per Active Skill you possess, to a max of +3 Skill Uses applied to a single skill StrifeMan has been doing that long before his Giga(edited) Josh - - - Terraforming would be like "I summoned Sand Stage, but it's Ice Element instead" so Multi-Element picks up Ice and "Non-Ice Navis" suffer the drawback instead of "Non-Sand Navis". If "Tornado" is used, it removes the Sand Panels as normal despite them being Ice Element. The element swap can be done only in the Supportive Phase, but that's probably a bit too far so maybe can nix that (but still once per turn). Intents: Mini-Panel Master seemed wild in concept even if not-so-wild in practice. Admittedly if only one of the special properties got converted into a CD (and the initial Ocean Stage could still be manipulated) I'd probably be fine with them changing to the new panel effects instead of just changing the element, just because "perma stage of choice" and pseudo-Panel Master seemed kinda unfair at my first and second glance. (In my unrelated opinion, Panel Master should get buffed or reworked though) - - For Strife: It's just something I wanted clarity on so I could fix the wording for it if that is the case (which I believe you, it's more about just ensuring everyone is on the same page is all) - - - Back to Terraforming: just to be sure because now I may have interpreted that wrong: Is that suppose to be a single Special Property? Or is it two separate Special Properties (which was what I assumed), one for Sand (that can then be changed to Ice/Ocean) and one for Ocean (that can, again, then be changed Sand/Ice)?(edited) Gaia It's a shared Special Property Set and Lock Aqua OR Sand Panels Gaia As I'm editing, I'm also making format adjustments, so Expect some differences when you return >.> Josh Np. Also if that's the case then that's totally fine just about as is then, I thought it was different xD Changes would be: - Only Supportive Phase (just to ensure it's still below Panel Master's niche even with only 3 Stages; also Setting Sand during the Defensive could have weird implications that are best to just avoid) - You can say it only replaces Sand, but keep Ocean's initial Ocean Stage (as with any Ocean, Sand, or Ice Panels, this skill is still able to modify those) - Prolly make it "1 Turn Minimum CD" just to prevent future cringe cases even if it does't reach that low currently Gaia It goes to 0-CD rn I mean 2-CD It goes to 2-CD But sure
{ Strifeman ::(+)::
} Calamitous FortitudeHeals 100 HP, I presume it means? Also note for future myself: A Tier BaseTwist of FateI've been under the impression that Sceptor is "to a Max of +3 Skill Uses applied, as desired" despite it's wording. I'll have to get with other staff on that to be sure, but for now this can remain as is.Stolen OpportunitySimpler to just say "+1 Attack Slot for 2 Turns", which is B-Tier Second effect seems fine, raising it to A-Tier Third effect would raise it to S-Tier (then reduced back to A from your Giga resulting in 7 Uses), a question on this though: is the sacrificed attack slot "gained in this way" refering to the additional one from the second effect or the initial one in the first effect?Malignant VeilRemove "At any time"; this can only occur upon activation Also RIP the skill's color code Note to future Rem: Tentatively related to Sceptor as wellMaster of DisasterTentatively awaiting others' opinions, but for some clarity: 1 - This only aplies against "Spend Additional Avoidances", I presume? 2 - Is it intended to interact with Avoid Separately? 3 - Is it intended to interact with "If Avoided / Regardless"?AntithemaJust wondering how it came to "55" Damage here? Also not seeing where the CDR is coming from for this series of attacks eitherLitany of [_]Augmenting each effect will cost 1 more CD to the attack, landing it at 4 CD (since these all aren't counted separately with "B-Tier" Scaling and all "add to the attack's existing CD"). Also add "while Charging this attack" to the condition.Torturous EnvyAs stated earlier, you can't target self outside of Statuses. I'm curious what Strifeman's motives were for this though?Damning BlastNeed to get back with you on whether "Omni 2" (that is: "Avoidin requires an additional avoidance") can be on an attack naturally. Additionally, Triggered Auto Attacks are "S+" and naturally require "1 Charge || 1 Use per battle", which ofcourse gets brought down to "1 CD || 1 Charge" on a Hyper Attack. Each "-# [Stat]" costs 1 Charge as well, and each "Regardless" costs 1 Charge, as does "Hits All", and those all get reduced to CD. This puts this the attack at 4 Charge and 7 CD, well over the "5 CD Max" Cap on Attacks (Hypers do not convert A-Tier to B-Tier, so the "+2 Effects per +1 CD" rule wouldn't apply here).
{ Gaia ::(+)::
} AvoidancesEither C+ Tier (2 Uses Base, C-Tier Scaling) or B- Tier (3 Uses Base, B-Tier Scaling) Up to you there. Also remove "At any time" since those effects should only occur upon use of the skill.ObjectsJust add "Only one object from this skill may be active at a time" to each of them
{ Vanguard ::(+)::
} Josh [Skills] Almost all good -- rewording on Pinpoint Offense seems fine by me and was a good way to consolidate Tactical Acumen counting as an "Aiming Skill" was the only iffy thing to me but I see the implication at least. I'd say change it to "Affects One Attack || Adds an Omni Aimer as well" if you really wanna scratch for the +2 Seeking Element uses, otherwise only 3 Uses here --------- [Attacks] You already mentioned the "Next Atk" vs "One Atk" thing so I'm only repeating it here since I plan to copy/paste this for the archives lol Zealot's Counterpoint -- Just wanted to say the concept is cool (disclaimer: might steal it =p) Zealot's Ultimatum - Using Regis as my basis since he vividly showed the various applications of augmenting temporary effects: " one instance of a temporary effect applying to this attack is 50% more effective (S+)" - Like in his case, instead of adding on the extra +1 Charge (to pay for the "+" in "S+"), a condition or stipulation can be attached to the effect if you wanted. (In his example: has to be used after an attack with 2 or more Charge in order for this effect to occur). Other than that everything seems to check out for now. And ofc if the newer guidelines for Attack Skills / Imbue Attacks get passed (ideally in February) we'd just need to get those tweaks applied as well. But for now, going by current rulings, looks just about good
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